A Marriage Therapist's Blog
Thoughts on Marriage Counseling
Are you married to a narcissist? Not sure? Some (but not all) of the characteristics of a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder are:
- Lacks empathy for you and for others. This may surface as an inability to pay attention to you when you are talking.
- Requires excessive admiration from you.
- Exaggerates his or her achievements.
- Takes advantage of you and others.
- Has a sense of entitlement.
That’s not a complete list, nor it is it enough to make a definitive diagnosis, but it should be food for thought. By the way, there are more male narcissists than female ones, so I will use the pronouns “he” and “his” for the rest of this article.
Narcissism is something I am looking for from the very first marriage therapy session. One clue is that the narcissist will typically try to get me to take his side and try to convince me that all (or almost all) of the problems in the marriage are actually attributable to his wife’s shortcomings. He will, of course, fail on both counts: I won’t take his side, nor will I believe that everything is his wife’s fault.
Trying to convince the marriage counselor that everything is the fault of the other person was deemed the fundamental attribution error by John Gottman. I like that terminology. And I have yet to see a case where everything wrong with the relationship was the fault of just one of the spouses.
So, once I realize that one of the spouses is a narcissist, what to do? I have to tell him, right? Well, that news isn’t always well-received by someone who thinks he is special and superior to others, so I have to do some of that professional marriage therapist “stuff” and handle it with kid gloves.
I work hard to increase empathy between the two partners during couples counseling, and clearly that is going to take more time with the narcissist. But I’m up for the challenge.
Tags: narcissism
This entry was posted on Tuesday, September 18th, 2007 at 6:33 pm and is filed under Specific Problems.
46 Responses to “Marriage Counseling with a Narcissist”
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July 14th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Hi. I will be starting marriage counseling with my wife, whom I believe to be a narcissist. My mother and brother are, so I have a few examples to go by…the more I read the information the more I get anxious. I was wondering what kind of reactions the narcissist gives when confronted about their condition.
Thanks
August 9th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
[...] several campaigns, I started to believe that I was special and became increasingly egocentric and narcissistic.” Ah, narcissism, one of my favorite topics. Remember that narcissists believe that they are [...]
November 26th, 2008 at 4:51 am
This is a great blog, thank you! I have personal experience of a narcissist, at the moment I am still struggling to make my relationship work, but its difficult, as I think it always is with N…
January 20th, 2009 at 3:10 am
Marriage Counseling is effective when the counselor works with couples. It’s even better when the counselor specializes in dealing with narcissists!
March 13th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
My marriage broke up 20 years ago because a marriage counselor did not recognize my husband’s narcissism (I only recently realized it by reading about it.) She played right into his Oscar-worthy performances and let him dominate every session and it became obvious to me, as he quoted her often, that they spent quite a bit of time outside of our appointments - talking about ME and how terrible I was! I did not think marriage counselors were to give any appearance of exclusivity to either partner…Anyway, the games he played in that office were the torpedo that sunk out battleship. When we finally went to ONE counselor (out of 5!) who did not allow him to dominate and made him explain himself etc…HE GOT UP AND LEFT AFTER 15 MINUTES. And I never saw him again.
March 14th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
amwh - I’m sorry that you had to go through four bad marriage counselors before you found one who would stand up to your husband.
As you found out, it’s not unusual for a narcissist to drop out of counseling when he finds out that the counselor is not going to take his side.
March 14th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
I am currently going through a divorce after a 30 year marriage to a diagnosed narcissist. This is a man who held himself up as a conservative Catholic, great father, entrepreneur and best friend to everyone. The life of the party and always the center of any conversation. It was sickening to watch. Now that our 2 daughters are grown and out of the house, I left the family home and purchased my own home. He was very cooperative in the first 2 months of our separation, insisting that he needed to have a divorce prior to being able to date. We are still not divorced because I refuse to settle for less than I deserve. He has found a woman (I believe long before our actual separation) whom he has actually tried to arrange a dinner introduction to my daughter, son-in-law and my granddaughter. My daughter was insensed and refused the dinner. My other younger daughter is angered beyond her limits at his betrayal and lies. Also, I had to tell my daughters that I found their father in our marital bed with this other conservative Catholic woman. They had to understand the extent of his lies and betrayal. Needless to say it has been very difficult. My daughters plan to have separate conversations with their father about all the goings on this week of 3/16/09. Any recommendations that I can send their way? They already realize that he will attempt to blame me and anyone else in the immediate environment.
March 21st, 2009 at 6:46 am
Fran,
I don’t have any advice, but I do want to let you know I’m praying for you. I’m married to a narcissist, and I don’t know what to do either. He has asked for a divorce, which has not been what I have wanted, but I’m not sure what will break through his self-delusion, and I’m not sure how to change myself to stop enabling it. He is masterful at rewards and punishment to get what he wants. Seeing that doesn’t mean I know how to address it. It may be that we end up divorced. I am praying for you, Fran.
March 28th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Hello!
Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!
PS: Sorry for my bad english, I’v just started to learn this language
See you!
Your, Raiul Baztepo
March 31st, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Hi, Im in a 4 years relationship, the first year was marvellous, i was sweet, intelligent and so on (he was the same), then we start fighting because of his affairs with several girls and i was always the guilty one, still am. He says he is like “God” and special, he has this madness about becoming super rich, becaming the greateast man in the world.
Almost all of the time i am criticised: he says he has light within and i have dark inside me…. even when he hits me i am the guilty one, i’m the one who caused the situation!!
His mum is mad too she just shouts all the time, i think she has BPD, and he is abused by her until today. I started reading articles about narcissism today and i want to know how to tell my boyfriend he is a narcissist? How to convince him to go throught the sessions? I love him so much because he has his good side too; that’s why i’m seeking for help! Can narcissist people be treated? Can they change? Thank you!
April 1st, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Vanessa,
I’m very concerned because you say that he hits you. You should not have to be in a situation where your physical safety is threatened. I recommend you investigate alternative living arrangements. If necessary, look for women’s shelters in your area.
-Jay
April 2nd, 2009 at 10:15 pm
I have been married to a narcissist (as diagnosed by one of the counselor) for 6 years now. We went through counseling twice, didn’t help because he never believe what counselors said (he went into counseling to prove his is right and filter out any advice). He would change but not for long. He can snap anytime. The frequency is so unpredictable but I know for sure he will snap again. He claims he is / enjoys being unpredictable and do things according to his ‘emotion’. I often find myself depressed and in fear. I did not understand why I am always dumb and make bad decisions. To make my life easier / marriage better, I have learned and adopted some of his thinking. I thought I have strong will and able to handle him but I was wrong. Things do take time to evolve, including bad decisions. To ensure you sanity and quality of life, get out as soon as you are ready and possible. Be financially independent, self reliance, keep a good network of friends, and belong to a religious group if possible. Don’t miscalculate and have kids or you’ll cause further suffering for yourself and the kids. Good luck.
April 8th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Vanessa - GET OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot tell you hard enough, loud enough, strong enough!
Of course he has good sides - but does that mean you deserve the bad sides? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! You must stop believing the lies he tells you about yourself, but as long as you stay with him you will not see reality as reality. My N demanded a divorce almost as soon as we got married. I was in disbelief! He was wonderful, I was wonderful (he said), and suddenly he wants to throw me away? Why? I never did understand why I couldn’t please him, and I nearly killed myself trying. (He used to say I never tried, finally just before the final split, I asked him to please say something, anything, good about me because I try so hard. He paused and replied, “Well,you do try sometimes, but it’s always the wrong thing!). But I hung on praying and praying…for 10 years and 2 kids. I knew once I had children I had to somehow stay married because I knew he’d try to take them too (everything is his). Not to mention he broke me down so much that I couldn’t even imagine how to make it on my own. Finally, he got his way and left a year and a half ago. I still do mental gymnastics trying to rid myself of his voice in my head chastising me, criticizing me. And we’ve settled nothing yet, because he won’t yield on anything. He is still hostile, angry because of course he deserves so much better. And I’ll be tied to him forever, forever controlling part of my life, because of the two dear children God blessed me with. If I were not a believer, I cannot imagine how I’d still be sane. Vanessa - you MUST GO NOW! RUN do NOT LOOK BACK - DO NOT RECONCILE…PLEASE VANESSA!!! Do not live in self-denial one more day. Because if you don’t find the strength to go, or at least act like you feel strong, but just do it, if not, you’ll look back on this day and truly grieve the loss of all the time you wasted on him. You’re young, and by that I mean that you are eternally optimistic because you haven’t experienced the end result of something like this yet, but others have and you must listen. It’s that important. Sorry I’ve scared you, but if you heed my warnings, then you’ve saved yourself. Only you can do it though Vanessa.
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:58 pm
WOW - so much to digest at one time. I just figured out after 8 years of marriage and 15 yrs of friendship that my husband is a narcissist. I am at a loss of what to do or if anything can be done. He has been much worse since returning from military service. I am at the point that I am actually trying to figure out who I am, so this is all fairly new. Is it possible to make marriage to a narcissist work?
April 24th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
WOW is right !! I’ve managed to stay married to one for 25years. I din’t figure it out unitl this year. He’s 46 now and it just kept getting harder and harder to handle him, and his excessive behavior. And now a midlife crisis, GOD give me strength. We have 2 children, and they think there dad is wierd, and unstable, got that right. I feel I have done and injustice to them by staying in this relationship, but feel if i leave that would be wrong too. My oldest understands and is just waiting for me to leave, the younger is scared to death of us divorcing. Hard place to be, not to mention that i have allowed myself to become completely finaical dependent on him. Big mistake !! Advise ? not sure i have any, but like everyone has said they are entertaining, usually of above average looks, and sometimes even seem like they actually love you. This to will pass, trust me.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:36 am
I’ve been with my husband (living together and married) for 35 years. He is a retired Navy physician and I am a scientist. He has always been controlling, and constantly nagging about my shortcomings. Everything is my fault. I jokingly say that if a meteor fell on our house, he would find a way to make it my fault. I’ve kept my own identity, bank account and job (thankfully) and am not completely under his thumb.
I made sure our house was paid off before I retired last year. We had no credit card debt and about 125,000 on our home equity line of credit. We discussed this debt, and agreed that I would cash in my life insurance to pay it off. I did so and was ready to write a check to the bank, but he said to give him the money and he would pay it off when the next bill came in.
I’m sure you can guess what happened. Not only did he not pay off the loan, he added to it! Now we are in debt about a quarter million dollars. He has used the money (he says) for his “business”. We are both retired and our income has fallen to about half of what it was. I thought we would be fine, since all our projections looked good and we had no debt.
Now he refuses to show me the bills, keeps everything locked up, and won’t get a credit check to show me our debts. His complete denial that there is a problem is what frustrates me. And his constant lying about finances.
I was in therapy for a few years, and he refused to go, saying (of course) that all our problems were my fault. The therapist said at that time that he had narcissistic tendencies. I’ve seen a new therapist and he says the same thing.
I just cannot cope. I don’t want to leave him (I’m 65) and I don’t want to stay. All my choices are bad. I just don’t know what to do.
F
May 20th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Hi. I really need some advice about getting married to a man, who I now know is a narcissist. We have been together for 3 years and the first year was bliss. He was attentive, adoring and seemed to be Mr. Right. As soon as we moved in together, it changed. He started to be demeaning, constantly telling me about what I was doing wrong and in general - just a jerk. He is very successful at work and I thought this was just a part of his arrogance. It annoyed me how he seemed to belittle people who didnt meet his standards, but I overlooked it because I was/am very much in love with him. I started to worry about things when I noticed his behavior and actions started becomming alarming. For instance, he would make rash decisions and impulsively make very large purchases without consulting me. I mean big purchases - like buying a brand new car and paying cash, buying a timeshare (actually 2), medical hair restoration, rolex, etc. When I would confront him on these things, he would say “it’s my money, I can buy whatever I want”. Everything is always about him. Everything is “his”, never ours….even our house. Because he paid the down payment on the house, he considers it to be his… although I pay half the mortgage and taxes! He always throws it up in my face that it is “his house”. Well, last year we were planning our wedding but I called it off because he wasnt changing and then he actually had an indiscretion while away on a work conference. I confronted him and he lied about it even though I actually had email proof between them. His lies were ridiculous. He would lie about everthing - even the dumbest things. He actually said it was my fault because I didnt give him the atention he needed. To this day, he blames me for his affair. Long story short, I called off the wedding and said we could only move forward if he agreed to couples counseling. We did 8 months of counseling (which he did not take seriously because “I was the one with the problem”). After counseling, things seemed better until December. I was laid off from my job bc my company closed. He actually seemed jealous and would say things like “I wish I could just not work and be off”. He left his job of 8 years to pursue another opportunity and actually quit that job after 2 days. Just quit - no other job lined up and I am not working. When I confronted him about it, again, he said “it has nothing to do with me - he wants to do something that makes him happy”. It seems that NOTHING ever satisfies him. I just cant believe how incredibily selfish it is for him to quit a job when I am not working and we are planning our wedding for the 2nd time!!!!! I have been researching NPD and he fits every single trait. I dont know if I should hang in there and be supportive until he finds another job or get out. Can people with NPD change? Should I suggest counseling again? Help!
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:40 am
This is my advice to SH …
Please reconsider . I know (after 16 years of marriage and 2 children) that I would not have married my husband if I knew what I know now. There is such a thing as a man who is concerned with your well being as well as his. I have seen and envied many of my friend’s relationships with their husbands. They can talk about everything, share their dreams and fears, etc. I have longed for this kind of intimacy for soooo long. If I try to have my husband open up and be in touch with his feelings, he just has nothing to say. Or else he will start by blaming his parents and siblings for turning him into what he is now. I used to feel sorry for him and had a motherly instinct to protect him. But no more … he is 47 years old and still recounts all the ‘awful’ things that happened to him as a child. After checking with his siblings, it turns out that he has exaggerated and changed the stories of what really happened. I believe them, because at times I hear him telling stories of things that happened to him and in reality it is things that happened to me !! These fabrications (which he believes to be true) made me realize that his view of the world is distorted.
You mention an ‘indiscretion’ … If he was unable to apologize and take responsibility for his actions now, he is very likely to do this again (in his eyes, its YOUR fault). What about when you have children ? If this (someone like your future husband) were your daughter’s fiancee, would you be thrilled or heart-broken ??
Please get counseling , and not until you have, should you even consider going ahead with the wedding. It is easier to redo your life right now . Good luck !
May 30th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
I have glanced over the above comments and find that I too am married to a narcissist. Same as many of the others above, the first few years of our relationship (now 17 years) were really great. We did everything together, travelling, biking, hiking, visiting family etc. I always knew that he grew a couple of marijuana plants in the basement of his house before we moved in together and I really don’t have that much of a problem with MJ although I can’t handle it myself.
We were married about a year after moving into our house together and within a couple of years things started to go downhill. Several times a week he would sit all evening in the basement workshop with his friend drinking and smoking MJ until sometimes he could hardly talk. He always knew everything better and, as one of his long time friends put it, he remembers big (exagerates his accomplishments and knowledge). He’d get so drunk and stoned when we were camping that he could hardly walk from the picnic table into the camper. He’d have screaming temper tantrums when I didn’t agree with him or brought up things that he didn’t want to discuss.
After about six or seven years of marriage I was ready to call it quits and often confided in my little border collie cross that we would leave one day soon.
Then in Feb 2003, while we were at work, the extension cord that was used for the light to grow his MJ in the basement started a fire. As (bad) luck would have it (and nobody can tell me what happened), the monitored alarm system never reported anything and never went off. There was no real fire for over two hours but the smoke built up so much that our neighbour called the fire department when she happened to look out her kitchen window and saw smoke coming out of our roof.
We lost almost everything in the house due to the smoke and water damage. My beloved dog was sleeping on the living room couch and never woke up. Additionally, because the fire inspector immediately recognized the plants and grow light for what they were, he had to tell the insurance adjuster what the cause of the fire was. No insurance because growing MJ is a criminal offence. No, you don’t have to be charged or convicted for the insurance companies to deem you guilty.
Here’s where the odessy for me started. He refused to help me with anything because he was so depressed and guilty about the fire having been his fault. I had to find us a place to live for over seven months, deal with the restoration company to get our house rebuilt on the inside, get the financing and insurance before the rebuilding could start and I decided to engage a lawyer on our behalf against the insurance company. (I dealt with the lawyers for over two years.)
I wanted him to do just one thing to help me with the house. While on our way to work one morning, I insisted that he call around to some alarm companies to get a couple of quotes. He didn’t go to work after I dropped him off, he tried to check into a local hospital as a suicide risk.
The house has been done now for about 5 years now. He has “tried” to commit suicide again because he hated his job so much. He announced at my 51st birthday dinner, to my entire family, that he would be retiring (quiting his job) at 50, six months from then. He didn’t discuss it with me at all and had already signed all the paperwork with HR. He has now been running his own business for the last two years. I do almost everything myself, do my own hobbies, look in on my aging parents and even visit his parents on our behalf. We slept in the same bed, but haven’t had sex for about 4 years. (There’s a lot more, but you get the idea.)
His business hasn’t really done all that well (only $17,000 in receipts in 2008) and he has converted our attached garage into an “office/workshop”. If he’s not in there he’s on the couch sleeping. I know he still smokes MJ every day. As part of doing our taxes, I discovered that he had been dipping into his line of credit to make up for his half of the mortgage, taxes and bills. When I first asked him about where the interest charges in his chequing account were coming from, he told me that he must have forgotten to pay his credit card a couple of times. I had to do some further digging to find that it was because he was taking money out of his line of credit.
The final straw happened about three weeks ago when he wouldn’t tell me about something that he was working on with his brother which presumably would be offered as a service of his business. I finally had a conversation with him in which I wanted to know why he wouldn’t tell me about this idea. He basically told me to shut up and mind my own business. I then said that with his quitting his job and lying about taking money out of his line of credit and refusing to tell me about this idea with his brother was an issue of trust for me. Oh well, he did his usual histrionic performance. Called me the usual number of names, ran down my brother, my sister, my Dad and anyone else he could think of. He move all his stuff into the spare room and hasn’t really talked to me much since then.
I have finally decided to separate from this selfish, self centered, lying, sneaking, childish person. I thought I would do it this weekend, however, (my latest excuse) have a number of commitments next week that I want to get over with. Then, next weekend I will make him read a letter I have written about how I feel. I have been to see a counsillor and have confided in my Mom and my sister. They have wholeheartedly endorsed my decision and say that he has changed over the past couple of years to be even more unpleasant than ever.
I have done a lot of research and planning and want to make sure that everything is in place in case I have to leave for my safety. I don’t know what he’ll do when I tell him. The thing that absolutely bites the worst is that I was stupid enough to try to fix things for so long and that he is legally entitled to half of our assets including my pension that I have worked so hard for. He has cost us $100,000 because of the fire and about $50,000 in lost pension and savings because he quit his job. I am a born saver and have much more retirement savings than he does and he’s entitled to half of that too. After the fire I bought my clothes at Value Village and the Sally Ann thrift stores so that we could save more. It’s not always the man who pays when a marriage breaks up. He has cost me dearly and I just don’t want to look after him any more.
Thanks for reading this. I feel like such a fool for having put up with this marriage for so long. Other people have seen that our situation is not good for a couple of years now. I should have done it a long time ago and yet, am still finding it very hard to tell him. To all of you who are in a similar situation, be strong for yourself!
June 5th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
RUN - DON’T WALK! And protect yourseld on the way out as much as possible without angering him. The only person you can change is yourself. Even narcissists have their good qualities and are often very charming. I have just divorced one after 20 years of marriage. He had every opportunity to put his family anywhere near the top of his priority list over the last 10 years, but chose not to. Therapy was a waste of ‘his time and money’. Kids were not a priority. All that ended up counting was him. He created great risk for our marriage, children and finances. It is difficult as a spouse and devasting as a child.
This will only get harder for you - and the narcissistic need will continue to grow and devour, but never be satisfied. Love has nothing to do with this equation even though he may say ir or it may appear that he loves you. Narcisissim is a wrecking ball. I just wish I had gotten out sooner before so much damage was done. Fortunately, my kids get it and also realize that without a major paradigm shift, their dad is not capable of truely loving anyone but himself.
June 10th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
I have decided (for about the 5th or 6th time) to divorce my verbally and emotionally abusive husband. Of course, now, he is being the “perfect husband” and complying with my every wish in hopes that I will change my mind. But not this time. After three children and 13 years of his abusive behavior, I just cannot live like this anymore. I see it effecting our children in a negative way and that is where it stops. There is so much damage that has been done and I just don’t see anything changing my mind, including counseling. Our couple friends, his family and him suggest counseling. Am I a bad person if I don’t want to go to counseling? I don’t want to work things out with him. Been there, done that too many times. I feel the damage he has done is beyond repair. I have talked to a good friend of mine and she shed a little light for me on the counseling thing. She said it would be a chance for me to get out all my thoughts and express what he has done to me(emotionally and spiritually) in a neutral setting where he couldn’t twist everything up. He brainwashes my children and leads them to believe that “mommy wants daddy to leave”, crying to them and doing the whole “poor me” show. He knows that getting to the children will hurt me. He has used them on several occassions where he has assumed or accused me of things and before I even know there is a problem, my children come crying to me because “daddy is moving far away”. There are just so many things and I am so tired, so tired. I have to be a strong woman for my two daughters and my son and make sure they know how they deserve to be treated and how to treat other people. Nothing has ever been good enough for him. He treats me as if I am one of the children and holds me repsonsible for everything they do. He laughs at me like I’m stupid, implies I am a bad mother, either I am “big draws” meaning fat, or a “crackhead” and seems to think that if he had never came into my life, I would be a drunk and/or on the streets. And even though I am so incapable of anything(as he says), he still has me handle bills, house transactions (where he didn’t want me on title), his schoolwork. And wanted to roll his eyes whenever I talked about my business or any ideas I had like it was a bore. Anyways, I feel for you all and I guess what I just really wanted to find out is if counseling is even worth the time? And also, after he knows he has no chance of getting me back, I am afraid he will be dangerous. He has threatened and bullied and I am defenitely fearful. He has moved back to his parents while he pays the rent for the house the kids and I stay in, but I really feel its just another way to still have control over me. Of course, while he is playing “perfect husband”, its hard to tell what his true motives are. I also think its another way to try to make me look like the bad guy in all of this even though he is the one that stole my spirit. Thanks for listening and any advice is greatly appreciated. God Bless!
June 17th, 2009 at 9:25 am
can i say how amazing and sad to read other comments of people suffering the same verbal/mental/physical abuse. I have been married 10 years, and although the verbal abuse and always being blamed for EVERYTHING has gone on for years, mine took a turn for the worse 2008, when i ‘went against the system’ and started doing things outside the circle, things that i wanted to do, that didnt include him. he has always been controlling in many ways, i lost me confidence in driving, if i wasnt in the right lane, or driving too slow the arguments would start (i wouldnt mind but he doesnt drive) in fact there wasnt much he could do, i payed all the bills, sorted out the maintenance etc. anyhow things took a turn for the worse last sep and there was an incident which involved my daughter pushing & shoving and i decided to leave the marital home. Its now 9 months on, i had counciling recently as we were thinking of trying to start again, but he reverted back to sort, my councilor suggested i look up narcissism, and thats what i did. When i researched it online, i cannot tell you how relieved i felt, knowing that i wasnt going mad, i wasnt to blame, etc…i now have to learn to be strong, every nasty situation is repaced with the pulling od the heart strings, i have told him its over, yet he’s not getting the messsage…we need to stay stong and say no…i will ask the same as everybody else and if anybody has an answer…can a narcisistic person change…be cured ????
June 26th, 2009 at 11:58 am
I to was married to a narcissist…for 19 years. We are in “the throws” of a divorce as of this date. I just recently realized that narcissistic personality disorder is what I was dealing with on a day to day. That is bascially how you live…day to day. You pretty much walk on egg shells, deal with jekyl & hyde, flip of the switch temper, bragging, chip on shoulder 24/7, negativity and verbal abuse. Anyone involved with such a person get out as quick as you can. They never change or am open to therapy because they are always right and perfect, there is nothing wrong with acting the way they do. Save your sanity, your heart and your family……..
July 14th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Narcissism is incurable. They are incredibly seductive, so you always end up going back. Just remember the bad times and fight. I’ve been with mine for twelve hellish years and am now separated. I can’t believe how much happier I feel.
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 pm
re comment 14th july, this is my problem (the seduction) although i have seperated 9 months ago after 11 yrs together, i feel no further foward, each time he comes back after working away, brings a different character, i have a small child so we have to make contact. Last week he came back the charming nice man, and thats where i find it hard, feel i have made a mistake, feel sorry for him, until i look back on this website that makes me feel strong again, as it reminds me of what i have been thro’ you tend to forget the nasty side, when the good side appears !
July 26th, 2009 at 7:51 am
Wow! This week in marriage counseling I was asked to come alone. (Our Therapist is one of the most respected in our affluential County.) My husband had 2 sessions alone with this therapist by my choice the 2 weeks prior. Then the bombshell dropped..when I started talking to our marriage counselor he told what occured when I was not there. When my husband was asked what he wanted to achieve in marriage counseling or what he needed to work on my husband said ” I am only here because my wife needs to fix things she does.” Therapist explains 2 people are in a relationship and what did he think (he)my husband could change….my husband replied “NOTHING…I dont do anything wrong” I am just here to support her. Therapist asks him to take a percentage of responsibility in marriage issues my husband reluctantly agreed to 1%.
IMAGINE MY SHOCK.
This is not what he tells me at home. He continually plays Martyr, hides behind religion, is very sucessful….and treats me as a second class citizen. we both sold a house before marrying yet only after 7 yrs. would he add me to the deed because i threatened to leave. He was caught by me having a seperate account with all the money in it. He has numerous times put his needs above all of ours.
I have a son with a disability and am now sick of it. My husbands self absorbtion has and will continue to harm my son
IE: Not properly watching him or caring for him, not properly pursuing my sons education legally (as he is a lawyer)
I am perplexed and have finally come to realize that as my therapist says I am there as the pretty arm charm that is it…recognizing the yrs of being treated as less than him has taken its toll…..I have never seen empathy or sympathy from him and it is all TOO much anymore…..Therapy continues we will see….
July 31st, 2009 at 10:58 pm
to hislovely wife…
your ‘most respected therapist’ has broken client-counsellor confidentiality and therefore NOT credible on any theraputic level. i have enjoyed reading this site as narcissism interests me. i am a narrative therapist so i challenge labels.
August 17th, 2009 at 5:35 am
I realised i was losing the battle but was fortunate to have separated emotionall from him a long time ago… good times were still good times, then realised that we could never be ‘normal’and that i was blamed for everything.. not a good enough house keeper, not a good enough mother, he was rude and mean, nasty to young children who would visit, etc etc etc I’m sure this is all familia.. yet through it all, amazed that when his behaviour was out of control I would admonish him… take sides against him.. even including a serious verbal attack he launched against a mentally disabled 7 year old whose mother and i lost a precious friendship because of this incident. I was blind to his inability to ever see his behaviour as aberrant. In Feb this year I had an epiphany… leaving him was not only essential to my mental health and financial survival (he never contributed to day to day expense… he was too broke from buying things for himself) but staying was harming my children. For years when things were good I’d rationalise that I could stick it out till the kids were older, after all why would I want to break up a family etc etc… until the moment that I realised that to stay in such an abusive relationship was actually harmful.. although my son is mad at me and he cannot understand why I left his daddy, his behaviour and attitude generally has improved out of sight because he is not living in a home where he is aware of how badly his needs for his dad’s company (dad would usually either sleep or be looking at porn or play solitaire on computer) were being ignored. They see each other now about once a week and they have quality time much more than when they lived under the same roof… my next dilemma is how to get him to leave the home (I have sold it and as we weren’t married - i’ve checked out my local laws, he is not entitled to anything as he contributed nothing) in the next few months without resorting to my instict to rescue him… any suggestions. i hope we all stay strong and find healing from this awful affliction…
August 18th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
I so disagree with David - sometimes a client’s saftey may be over-riding. My own therapist - initially for both of us - did a similar thing. He told me the results of my (ex)husband’s personality assessment - it broke client confidentiality BUT he told me to help me get out. I had never heard of NPD - was suffering abuse trauma from trying to ‘manage’ the relationship. The therapist told me exH was a ‘raging’ narcissist and deeply disturbed and his advice was to get out as quickly as possible. He stated that in 23 years of giving couples counseling he had on 4 or 5 occasions come across a relationship where one person needed to leave and this was such an occasion.
I took his advice and now 2 years after the divorce (only 4 years married and no kids) and still trying to get my financial settlement I am so grateful for his honesty and he has helped me enormously - I had never heard of trauma bonding. Having read some of the posts here with women still trying to make it work with an NPD person and professing love for their partners I understand all too well how trauma bonding works.
August 19th, 2009 at 2:49 am
jackie,
if you read carefully ‘his lovely wife’ was not in any danger and the information given does not warrent breaking confidentiality. i totally agree to break it if there is risk of harm to others, self or court ordered. these are the legally and professionally binding agreements i have agreed to adhere to as a cousellor in NZ belonging to the New Zealand Assoc of Counsellors. you may have disagreed with me from within you own personal narrative. again, i agree with you on your point to break confidentiality should there be risk of harm to others. oh and by the way its totally ok to disagree, i would never force my opinion on to you. peace all.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:14 am
I don’t see any point in trying to fix things with a narcissist unless there are children in the equation, and even then, I really wonder whether or not it’s better to have at least one emotionally healthy parent, rather than two unhappy ones performing the codependent/narcissist death dance…
I dated a narcissist for a year and a half. I am someone who bootstrapped my way to success. She was born into wealth and beauty. I have never been unhappier with someone in my life and yet felt so trapped in feeling if only I could say or do the right thing, it would all fall into place. To be upfront, I probably have a low degree of histrionics going on with myself as I came from an alcoholic family, but I’ve owned that and I continue to own that going forward.
In contrast, she pegs 8 out of the 9 signs of narcissism without breaking a sweat. And to be honest, some of those signs I could tolerate as quirks because I’m not perfection embodied either, but the lack of empathy is a real deal-breaker. And that’s the one that makes a slight codependent like myself so damned miserable as you watch your partner do uncaring thoughtless things you wouldn’t do in a million years because you feel so much like her caretaker and partner hoping only for the same in return. Which of course will not and cannot ever happen. After a year and a half, she broke up with me in the middle of a conversation about a rock concert that had just been cancelled. I was devastated. I suspect she just moved on to her next target the next day.
The upside is that having addressed the histrionic bits within, she brutally exposed my codependency issues and now I need to address that.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
HELP! I have been married 6 years to a man that rarely admits guilt and when he does it is MAJOR DEPRESSION. Should I stay or should I go we have started marriage coubseling for the second time, in addition we are both seeing individual therapist as well, is there a chance in hell that my self abosbed successful husband can be a good husband? At first he tried to say i was Borderline Personality Disorder, however, he is now studying NPD, however, instead of recognizing his behavior he is going to get back to being himlf. Is he just setting me up? He constantly says that I am stupid, and that he cannot have a intellectual conversation with me, and that I babble. Fortunately, my husband is successful, should I run & let him have everything? I have not worked since we were married because we both wanted me to be a stay at home mom, luckily, we have not been able to have children, I guess this was a blessing in disguise.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:45 am
Not having children is a blessing. Can a partner be a good husband if he calls you stupid and treats you like this? Marriage is a partnership, equal, mutual. Get a good attrny and run too! I have been married for over 23 years to a narcissist and am just realizing it. Purchased a book today called disarming the narcissist. will learn more, but every one here has already stated every situation I have revisited dozens of times in my marriage…I too am exhausted, thinking if I just tried one more time, one more thing, he would understand what I’m feeling…but it doesn’t work. He’s right, I’m wrong, and I’m sorry! What’s worse is the chldrn…They are torn…they hate being with Dad, but they want to have a normal family. Kids want to love their parents, they feel loyal, but hate what they are thinking inside their own minds, which is how can I escape this craziness? good luck, your not stupid, but don’t stay…I wish I had left earlier, but I stayed for the kids’ sakes. Now some of them are teens, and it’s even harder with their hormones because some days they hate me for ‘destroying the family’.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:09 am
I am here today. I am in the throws of this NPD with my new husband. We haven’t even been married a year…although we have been together for almost four now. I truly blame myself, as I knew there were serious issues. Yet, I constantly made excuses for them. The first year (he was married with three children and I was going through a divorce from a 17 year marriage) he had an affair with me. I had not done anything like that before. I believed he had not either. We were just madly in love and found a bliss that was breathtaking. We traveled, laughed and talked for hours. It was so romantic and he was so overwhelmingly giving to me. Gifts, time, affection and words of praise. I felt so lucky to have met such a wonderful man! He left his wife and kids that live a few states away from me, moved in with me and my two kids and we began our relationship. She filed for the divorce about a year later , not him. I think he always wanted to leave that door open if she would allow it. Our relationship seemed to unravel quickly. He was tight with a buddy and his buddy’s wife. They did things together, including vacation, without me. I became the outsider. He moved out, moved to their neighborhood and began a questionable relationship with his buddy’s wife. He claims she made passes at him (which I believe she did, because I’ve seen her in action and she flirts with everyone. She tells my husband (and some other people) that she and her husband haven’t had sex in three years). We broke up for about 6-7 weeks. Whatever they did while we were apart is unclear. But it scared him enough to call me and want to come back. She was pissed and called his ex wife to talk. He came back to me. Again, he was so charming to me and asked me to marry him. I thought that the past was the past. I thought we were both experiencing the issues and drama from a divorce. We had both been married to our previous spouses for 17 years. It was tramatic. We were treading emotionally new ground. I believe I understood his actions during our breakup. I accepted the unknown of his relationship with his buddy’s wife. I said yes. He roller coaster-ed his desire to actually get married. I pressed the issue, as I felt we knew by then that all we had been through meant we were to be together. He wanted a prenup before he would marry, as his previous wife gets life time alimony. The day prior to our wedding, I was at his attorney’s office signing a prenup. We got married. He moved into my house with me and my two children. He lease/optioned his condo that he had been living in. He has been in this house for 11 months. The drama, egg shells, anger, selfishness, money hungry, games, trama, calling his mother and talking for hours about our personal relationship, wanting me to sign something to give him rights to this house, being cold to my children, finding fault in me, my kids, my family …and everything else is too much. He took a two week trip on his job. He doesn’t stay in touch (6 calls in 11 days.. where we talk about him and his problems, with a perfunctionary “what did you do today” thrown in). There is no compassion, romance, feeling or life in our relationship. The lease/option on his condo ran out. The guy is not buying it, so it will be available for him to move back into ….as if our marriage never existed. I believe he is calculating now how he will leave. There is no effort being made to stay. We have been (separately) to a counselor a couple of times. When I asked to go together, he comments that the counselor will see things his way. He doesn’t give any indication that he is going for us, but rather to convince the counselor that he is right. Yes, I had an affair with a married man (him). God has more than punished me for that choice. When I say NEVER again, I promise God and myself that! My children have suffered from watching such a disturbing relationship. Even in the worst of times from the divorce from their father, it was never as twisted as my current (less than one year) marriage is with this man. Whoever is out there and dealing with similar issues, I welcome your words of wisdom and clarity.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Hi, The narcisstist will never own up to his/her destuctive behavior and it’s impact on the marriage and the family.
I separated after 24 years of marriage. My children, then 15 and 17, told me in the immediate aftermath and continue to say 4 years later that I should have left earlier. Our household is now a peaceful and predictable place. Do you really want to be having that conversation with your children? I feel guilty for putting them through all this.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
My wife and I have been married for 28 years. I don’t know why I have been so slow to research and realize that she is probably a narcissist. In 28 years, she has never apologized - no matter how hurtful or how wrong she has been. She always twists any situation around to be the fault of others - usually me. She can talk and talk about herself, her work, how she looks, etc. but glazes over the instant I begin to talk. She becomes almost violently angry if I confront her with an irrefutable error. i.e. if she has done something obviously wrong and I don’t let her blame someone else. She continuously cuts me down - every chance she gets. I avoid telling her any news … good or bad because she finds a way to hammer me with it. And it is never, under any circumstances, acceptable for me to get angry with her. She demonstrates extreme double standards. While she feels entirely justified in criticizing me continuously, it is never acceptable for me to be even a little bit critical towards her. Her behaviors seem to be getting worse. I am going to suggest counseling, but guarantee she will not go. Is it even worth while to tell her I believe she is a narcissistic personality disorder?
December 4th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Wow!!! This is MY life.
December 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Yep, it’s my story as well. Now that I have a name for it I should go back and tell the professionals that soaked me for years as I spiraled into darkness almost losing all, what that term is. However, an angel pointed me in the right direction and the rest will be up to me. That is all I need.
December 17th, 2009 at 3:04 am
Married 24 years to a narcissist. Always had big plans that never worked out. First an army officer, then put him through law school, hated practicing law didn’t manage the money or office. Went back for Masters Degree to teach. 2 or 3 years of that, now starting a govt. contract job overseas. Left me and our 2 kids for another woman who is “my total opposite” he says. That would be someone who didn’t allow him to pursue every hobby, job, interest or toy he wanted. We have no savings or retirement. I have been the perfect background wife. I looked good on his arm, never argued, agreed with his “bad luck” and mistreatment by others. I covered up our financial problems for him. He lied all through the marriage and told me he loved me up to being caught. He did love me but he found someone new who breathed new life into his ego and realized he had been missing that. I still want him back because I love who I want him to be, not who he is. Figuring out narcissism will be a road to recovery for me I hope
December 21st, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Hi, we never visit my family, only his. there are always multiple reasons why do not. He at times makes me feel unconfortable because he ingores what I say and then complains that I become a b________> After you have asked someone a dozen times about anything and they ignore you or take their time in doing something. He shows anger, instead of empathy.
deep down afraid to leave him because retaliation in usually an obscure way. We never discuss mutual goals in a cooperative manner. He likes to have his way most of the time.
worried,
should I be excessively worried or should I be.
He makes me confused
Thanks,
MM
January 1st, 2010 at 10:11 am
Where a therapist is sure about one partner having a severe NPD it is responsible to inform their partner and support them in leaving. There are only degrees of destructiveness in trying to have a relatonship with an NPD.It also is ethical for helping the NPD partner the therapist working towards ending the relationship. Ultimately the NPD doesn’t have a positive experience either as he realises he is continually seen as wanting feeling compeled to defend himself. And as cruel a NPD may be there are a whole lot of relationship areas that they are just deficient in, unable to even understand fully what or how to sustain meeting others needs. Secondly the more limited the time frame is and the less combined rescources the less the NPD ends up loosing in any settlement once a break up occurs - compare 4 yrs& no kids to 15 yrs and 3 kids in regard to post break up costs.
Therapists may need to work on harm minimisation where they can see the partner of an NPD is unable to leave the relationship at that point in time.
Finally with a NPD client there is not any point in telling them their diagnosis, rather identifying the traits and issues that arise with these with some suggestions in modifying the degree of their severity
January 17th, 2010 at 8:51 am
hmm codependantnarcissist dance of death, I like that.
23 years with a narcissist. we never married but had 2 boys - I emigrated with him to his country where I have zero entitlement despite all that time together - I opted to stay together for the kids and spent 15 years helping to run our sorry his business and live in our sorry his house and drive our sorry his cars.we earnt the start up capital together before we left. nothing is in my name and had I left, his solution was each of us to take one of the boys - they were 11 and 12 at the time. Same old story - everything my fault so now that our sons are 20 and 21 still at home and at local uni I can leave everything and he ‘might pay my rent if he can afford it’. 2 years ago after endless arguments over how to run the business and what investments to make he told me he just ‘wanted me to be his shadow’. I pulled out and took a low paid job at a newspaper which I am told I am very good at (obviously not by him - his version is that I am a traitor who has sabotaged the business despite the fact that I persuaded his cousin to take my place to help him unbeknown to him as he would probably not have agreed if it was my idea.) During the last year I have lived with constant anxiety, started smoking again after 17 years of having given up but am slowly gaining confidence and coming out of a horrible period of fear and emotional stress. I used to tell myself that he didn’t mean what he said, that I could fix things, that it was cultural, that we were a good team, that we had created a great business and great kids, that he had jealousy issues, that i was a failure blah blah. Then I found out about npd thank god and it all fell into place - still struggling with the codependency bit and how the hell I stranded myself lock stock and barrel though and how it has affected my sons. My instinct was to cut and run but my therapist warned me that I could have heavy bitterness issues later about poverty and justice so I stuck it out. Not sure what for as a vague offer of rent if possible will just be another control issue.
What changed things for me was finding out that I had hepatitis C at a medical and undergoing a gruelling 12 month medication. He also has it (from intravenous drug use and gave it to me).
He insisted that I take the treatment first although he has had it longer but his zero empathy left me isolated in my room. I realise now he is a kind of emotional cripple but at the time I couldn’t understand why he couldn’t look after me, is too macho to even make me a cup of tea, and took it for granted that i would continue to work until I was so hostile, depressed and anaemic that i ceased to be a company asset. I honestly think that the only reason he hasn’t kicked me out (although he threatens to do it all the time) is because he would look bad and a failure to his family and the small community in which we live. Now the blame guilt cycle we lived so long doesn’t phaze me anymore and we are living 2 separate lives in the same house. Actually we always did live separate lives but mine was in his sphere before, now it isn’t. No surprise he has never read a single one of my articles but wants me to write about his busines problems as he is involved in 3 big court cases against the government. It is a hard decision to make to leave as I have made my life and friends in another country and don’t want to leave but will have to move out of the area and face a single life at the age of 56 on the breadline. My whole life has been tailored around staying local to the village and I will have to move into town away from everyone I know and the coast and countryside and people where I have made my home. That’s why I call myself the graduate, so I don’t feel that I have lost or wasted my life, only graduated. Two bouts of narcissistic rage in the last 24 hours see me in my room on my laptop staying out of his orbit. I used to think that he was telling me to go to make me stay but I think I was wrong - I really am surplus, obsolete, a malfunctioning machine in his eyes. I worried and stressed about my sons leaving home but it looks as if I will be the one who goes. No one who has not been there can understand the depth of verbal and emotional abuse and recrimination, anxiety and lack of confidence that this situation creates. He is positively radioactive when things don’t go his way and has told me he that the reason he can’t stand to socialise as a couple is because I take attention away from him. He fantasizes about power and is obsessed with domination, wishes he was super rich and surrounded by adoring beauties, soaks up discovery channel to be the expert on everything and monopolises every conversation, waits for me or my sons to do something so he can tell us how we could do it better or how we did it wrong, refuses to take treatment for his illness and now watches HD TV every moment he is at home until he falls asleep in front of TV.
He has always refused to even consider counselling as I am the one who is crazy and says that he can replace me and this will solve all his problems. So fellow sufferers its a familiar story.
Leap and the net shall appear (as long as its not a narcissistic one) lol. Thanks to everyone for sharing - if you are in this situation you really need to be validated to be able to go and also to be aware of why you got into it in the first place when most would have run a mile within 24 hours. By the end of the story, living on the breadline really is a far easier and less emotionally exhausting option. At least you know where you are and don’t have to justify EVERYTHING you do or how you do it or watch your friends be frozen out or demonised, or be humiliated in front of them.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:22 am
It is sad to see so many people suffering from bad relationship patterns. However, what no-one has mentioned or considered is what is driving you to be attracted to a narcissist? Why are you attracted to them? And why do you put up with it? At some level there will be a part of your mind getting a benefit from it.
It is incorrect to say that a narcissist can not change. However, they won’t because you want them too, but because they want to. And importantly, they won’t if they don’t have the right tools for the job to make those changes. Both narcissistic behaviour and the behaviour of someone that attracts a narcissist are programmes stored in the subconscious mind. Counselling works with the conscious mind, which is why it’s unsurprising that many of you are not seeing the changes you’d like. Proper hypnosis therapy is the correct way to make these changes quickly and effectively. It is a shame it is not more popular in the US.
If your partner doesn’t want to change, there is nothing you can do to force them. Why would they want to? What is the benefit to them as they’re getting their own way and getting away with it? The way to make a change is to change yourself and change that programme that attracts, puts up with and feeds the narcissist. It is amazing that when you change on a subconscious level, how other people’s reaction to you change too.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Hello. I have been married to someone with NPD for 21 years. His mother also has it. I would like to change myself on a “subconscious level” to see if it will affect my husband in a positive way. My kids are almost grown and out of the house. I don’t want to lose everything I’ve worked so hard for. I fantasize about living separately and just going out together and enjoying each other’s company when he is “doing well.” I’ve accepted that I will never have a relationship that resembles a healthy and loving union and I truly can live with that. I just wish I could live on my own so I wouldn’t have to listen to the yelling, the verbal abuse, etc. I am so glad to be enlightened about this disorder. It has liberated me a great deal. I, too, spent years trying to “earn” his approval, but gave up about 6 years ago or so when I told myself I would just give it until the kids were gone. I don’t want another man, but I do want to live in peace. Please some advice on books that would help me understand why I was attrracted to this type of person, and what I can do to try and deal with it. I don’t feel divorce is what will solve my problem, personally.
February 21st, 2010 at 2:17 pm
narcisscist live in boyfriend of one year, doesn’t seem to want to leave although i have asked him to look for a place. He is not generally abusive, although indifferent to how I feel, and does virtually nothing around the house. I still love him, I think, but
I don’t want a lifetime of this. I’m working hard to be financially independent of him, so I don’t have to have him here for financial reasons. He honestly does not contribute much money to the relationship either.appeals to caretaking codependent side of me since he seems so helpless. Anytime we go out which is rarely, I have to pay. could use some support.
March 9th, 2010 at 6:53 am
As someone that has been married 14 years with someone that I now believe probably has NPD, I need to say to everyone who dating someone similar is: RUN.
This is as good as it gets, and it can and will get worse. Because after investing years of emotional, intellectual, physical, economical and psychic energy, you can get to the end of the road where you’re used up.
Don’t wait until you’re economically tied, have children, and have no energy to run. There is nothing at the end of that rainbow except your pain. Save yourself.